Thom Hartmann: How do you think this is all going to play out?
Larry Johnson: Well, this is, you know, like Pink Floyd, “just another brick in the wall.” What George Tenet does is corroborate what Richard Clarke said, i.e., that very early on the administration was obsessed with going after Saddam, and had no intention of taking out Al Qaeda. They were obsessed with Saddam.
Thom Hartmann: Is this PNAC? Is this oil? Is this political capital? Or is it all of the above?
Larry Johnson: All of the above.
Thom Hartmann: Yes. That’s my sense of it as well. My sense of it is that George Bush wanted to do it for political capital, Cheney wanted to do it for his oil buddies, and the ideologues in the administration wanted to do it for the PNAC purposes, i.e., “Let’s create empire.” And it was the perfect storm. The right people got together at the right time in the right place …
Larry Johnson: And the American people are paying a terrible price today.
Thom Hartmann Show, Air America Radio, 4-30-07
Hard Rain Journal 5-1-07: “Just Another Brick in the Wall …” -- Thom Hartmann Interviews Larry Johnson, All You Need to Know About George Tenet
By Richard Power
Former CIA and State Department intelligence professional Larry Johnson has been performing an invaluable service over the last several years, by delivering real-time, in-depth analysis of the Bush-Cheney regime's national security debacles.
Air America Radio’s Thom Hartmann also performs an invaluable service, by providing historical, psychological and spiritual context on a broad spectrum of important political issues.
Here is an insightful dialogue between Hartmann and Johnson, concerning George Tenet’s book, At the Eye of the Storm, and some of the remarks that Tenet has made in his effort to promote it.
Thom Hartmann: As I was watching [the Sixty Minutes interview with George Tenet], and afterwards, my wife Louise and I had a long discussion, speculating about why now, why not then, is Tenet a suck up, kick down kind of guy who just got caught up in the whole thing? Or do you think – because even now he will not condemn George W. Bush – that he is afraid of the Bush dynasty?
Larry Johnson: I think he is terrified of the Bush dynasty. As we were soliciting other intelligence officers to sign, I got a letter from a buddy of mine who declined to sign, but let me quote from his letter – “I will tell you one thing, though, if your agenda is to have any impact on Tenet personally, I am sorry to say he is beyond that type of appeal. George is a political animal, and his recent comments are merely to sell his book and position himself for the future in his home political party, whatever that may be. Honor and conscience do not even enter into this equation.” Now this is an officer who had personal dealings with Tenet. … Tenet will criticize Cheney, he will criticize Rice, because they will not be important players in the future; but he does not want to get on the wrong side of the Bush family. But he treats George Bush as the equivalent of a bobble-headed doll, an accessory on the desk, that wasn’t a decision-maker, or played any role in what was going on.
Thom Hartmann: Or as an emperor of whom no ill shall be spoken. The Bush dynasty has been around a long, long time – going back to Prescott – and has an enormous concentration of power and wealth in this country. And frankly, I think they have absorbed a bit of the Clinton … Bill’s association with Bush, Sr. is like “Hey, let’s become part of the dynasty.” And Jeb is the next one in line. I am fully expecting – four or eight years down the line – to see Jeb running for President. This is a dynasty that is not going to go away, and that has its tentacles all over the place, a multi-billion dollar, arguably a trillion dollar enterprise from Carlyle Group on down, and you go up against the people and you are dead. You could be literally physically dead, you certainly will be politically dead.
Larry Johnson: He didn’t want to take the political and economic risk with them -- that is quite clear. And yet, I think it is reprehensible of him to come out and say these things now, when he knew them then. But he lied last night [on Sixty Minutes]. “Lie” is a pretty strong word, but let me give you one example: [on Sixty Minutes] he said correctly that there was never any evidence of relations between Bin Laden and Saddam. And he knew that very clearly in the Fall of 2002, when the National Intelligence Estimate was completed, yet he turned around and went to Congress in February of 2003 and testified about these various associations, and clearly left the implication that there was a relationship. So he was trying to have it both ways. That is so intellectually dishonest. Also, if you watched the Sixty Minutes piece, you saw how he tried to bully Scott Pelley when Pelley was asking him about the definition of torture and water-boarding, and Tenet kept saying it wasn’t torture, and kept running away from the question, but Tenet then turned and become quite angry and stern with Pelley. Well, that was the George Tenet that was bullying analysts who came to him and said, “Curveball is a bad source.” But he didn’t want to hear that. And when it came to the things he didn’t want to hear, he became the bully inside. And I know that from officers who told him in 2002 as well that they had a reliable source that there was no WMD in Iraq, and Tenet ignored it. … The facts are -- and I wrote this for a paper that I gave to J. Paul Bremer back in January 2003 – that Iraq had never been involved in any mass causality terrorist attacks against the United States. The last known association with a terrorist attack against US interests was the failed attempt in 1993 to kill George [H.W.] Bush. Most of the terrorism that Iraq was engaged in was directed at Israel, and Iran, and then some of the UN officials who were inside Iraq. That said, they were very strict about not cooperating with Islamic extremists. Saddam was not an Islamic extremist; even though toward the end of the regime, he sort of found religion and wanted to try to use ties with those folks to shore himself up. But he still did not lend operational support. And they used the stuff about Zarqawi who was up in a corner of Iraq that Saddam didn’t effectively control.
Thom Hartmann: That was under our protection actually, it was the no-fly zone.
Larry Johnson: Yeah. So you have all these things that can sort of have a factual truth to them, but when you really understand what is being said, it is just misleading.
Thom Hartmann: How do you think this is all going to play out?
Larry Johnson: Well, this is, you know, like Pink Floyd, “just another brick in the wall.” What George Tenet does is corroborate what Richard Clarke said, i.e., that very early on the administration was obsessed with going after Saddam, and had no intention of taking out Al Qaeda. They were obsessed with Saddam.
Thom Hartmann: Is this PNAC? Is this oil? Is this political capital? Or is it all of the above?
Larry Johnson: All of the above.
Thom Hartmann: Yes. That’s my sense of it as well. My sense of it is that George Bush wanted to do it for political capital, Cheney wanted to do it for his oil buddies, and the ideologues in the administration wanted to do it for the PNAC purposes, i.e., “Let’s create empire.” And it was the perfect storm. The right people got together at the right time in the right place …
Larry Johnson: And the American people are paying a terrible price today.
Thom Hartmann: And people in the Middle East, and all over the planet.
You can download podcasts of the Thom Hartmann Show for free at Thom’s site, http://www.thomhartmann.com.
Related Post
Hard Rain Journal 5-1-07: “I Dreamed I Saw St. Augustine …” –George Tenet, Hillary Clinton and the Truth
Richard Power is the founder of GS(3) Intelligence and Words of Power. His work focuses on the inter-related issues of security, sustainability and spirit, and how to overcome the challenges of terrorism, cyber crime, global warming, health emergencies, natural disasters, etc. You can reach him via e-mail: richardpower@wordsofpower.net. For more information, go to www.wordsofpower.net
Iraq,Saddam Hussein, Ray McGovern, Larry Johnson, George Tenet, Condoleeza Rice,Bush, Air America Radio, Thom Hartmann, Cheney, Richard Power, Words of Power
